Twins, Retractables, And What's Holding Us Back

In the first installment of this interview, Cessna President Jack Pelton opened up to us about his flying roots, his love for general and grassroots aviation, and his current recreational aviation activities.

We got him to admit he flies other planes, even though he, like many of us, learned to fly in a Cessna. Now we move on to the company's current and future products, and Pelton identifies the one factor that's acting as a gate on new piston-engine developments: propulsion technology.

Aero-News: Now going back to before your time as CEO. In 1986, Cessna discontinued its single-engine line, and the piston twins petered out at, I think, about the same time.

Jack Pelton: Sure did. I think we stopped building piston twins in... 86?

Jessica Myers (Cessna's Media Person): 86.

JP: 86, 87.

Aero-News: So that's going back a ways. Have you ever given any thought to bringing the twins back?

JP: It's often discussed, you know, in the customer base. We don't personally see an economic business case to bring them back. The way technology is moving, if you look at building a, oh, a turbine twin versus a very-light jet, like we have with the [Citation] Mustang, it's tough to compete from a cost perspective with what's coming in from a technology standpoint.

Aero-News: It probably costs you more to make a twin than a Mustang, then...

JP: Just the engines, engines, avionics, and systems don't scale very well. So if you're looking at putting an avionics system and flight control system, like we have in the Mustang, you aren't going to get a significant cost advantage, to make it a viable product.

Aero-News: You can't take that... Mustang technology, much downmarket from where it goes with the Mustang.

JP: Not and scale price down, you can't.

Aero-News: So you can build a small airplane for the same price, sell fewer of them...

JP: [laughter]

Aero-News: ...and make a small fortune from a large one.

JP: Yeah.

Aero-News: The other question is, when you brought the singles back, you stayed with the fixed-gear singles...

JP: Yes

Aero-News: ...and the retractables, like my father's beloved 210...

JP: [laughs] I can't go ANYWHERE without someone asking me, "Why aren't you building the 210?"

Aero-News: Well, having seen firsthand the ownership cycle of the 210, I think I can understand...

JP: Was it pressurized?

Aero-News: No, but a turbo.  And maintenance wise it was... maintenance, insurance... and the insurers have a vote.

JP: Well, but today, if you look at today's 206, the performance is pretty darn close. Especially the turbo 206, to a 210. Speed-wise, it's almost there, so... you're saving all the maintenance costs and the insurance. We've got a product that's very competitive with the 210. I don't think people really appreciate that. They think, "Retractable gear, 210, why aren't you making that?" And it kind of had its own niche, but... the 206 is darn close.

Aero-News: And of course, Piper is making six seaters in both fixed and retractable gear. They were only making the retractables for a while, and you each had your own market niche. Of course, they don't produce your volume, I would say.

JP: No.

Aero-News: But they're doing quite well in the six seat market. In the four seat, you... and other people... are eating their lunch, but the six seat seems to be going the other way?

JP: We have a good market share in the six seat. I don't remember the exact percent, but I think we're better than Piper.

Aero-News: And really, you're pretty much the only players in volume production.

JP: Yeah.

Aero-News: There are some of these guys that build two planes a year...

JP: But then, there are other competitors that are ramping up nicely. Alan and Dale [Klapmeier, of Cirrus Design], I mean, every year they keep building more and more.

Aero-News: I'm sure you've heard Alan's announcement of his next product.

JP [curious]: Is that his six-seater?

Aero-News: No, you ask him what he's making next, and he tells you, "well, it's going to be a supersonic business jet, it has vertical take off and landing, it's gonna burn 13 gallons an hour, and it will be available for $1.1 million. Real soon!"

JP [mock-serious]: Did you put your money down?

Aero-News: Oh certainly!

JP: Cause it sounds like a heck of a deal! [laughs]

Aero-News: Well, if you've been in EAA that long, you've seen some of the people that come and go, promising impossible things...

JP: Jim Bede.

Aero-News: I'm sure Jim's here somewhere, selling airplanes.

JP: And people are buying 'em.

Aero-News: Well, I've been wanting to ask this. Do you plan to do anything to enhance the value proposition of the larger piston aircraft?

JP: We continue to look at how we can continue to grow and invest in our products to make sure.... If the market is there we'll be there.

Aero-News: Are you concerned about the Gippsland Airvan in the 206 market?

JP: No. It's not a direct competitor. Its kinda like comparing the Eclipse and the Mustang. Two different price points, two different capability levels.

Aero-News: So the jets are not going to go any smaller, the pistons are not going to go anywhere from the line we have now?

JP: Pistons, they're gonna go where we can go with the technology. If somebody can come up with innovative engine technology that would allow us to do more in the single engine piston, and grow the single engine piston, we would explore that.

But you know, in our industry everybody asks why there aren't so many revolutionary new products -- well, it's driven by technology. The Mustang, the Eclipse -- those are only coming about because the engine technology finally became available at the right price, and the avionics technology became available at the right price, so that you get the right cost, you can hit the right price point for the right products.

FMI: www.cessna.com